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I just thought I would share that I won temporary relocation with my children to move from Washington to Minnesota. My STBX appealed to the Judge and the Judge also granted relocation. When I was desperately looking for information, I could not find any information about how cases in court were turning out. Washington State may seem liberal for mother's but I was told by 2 of the top Washington Lawyers that temporary orders to relocate were almost impossible to win. The STBX accussed me of drugs, abuse etc. with no proof of anything. Both the Commissioner and the Judge saw through his ploy. Had he not been so contrary and lie so much in his documents, things might be different. I also know of another case where the father is much more involved than my STBX and the wife also was allowed to relocate to NY from Washington. That one is waiting on Judge Revision but the general consensus in Washington State right now is that a good mother can relocate with her children. I just want all the scared mothers to know that there is hope. My STBX will have to work within the parenting plan and won't be able to screw up our lives whenever life is not convenient for him. We will also have a chance to move forward with our lives with some family around, in a less costly environment and on our own terms. When people go from being married to divorcing, usually one person forgets that you are no longer here to serve the other person. The Judge knew I would win relocation during trial and saw nothing that STBX said had merit. I have new faith in the system. They see cases all the time and know when someone is being a fraud. The STBX self centered attitude will be a pesky bug going forward but will not be able to control our destiny. I am so grateful.

I'm glad you got what you wanted but you also need to have some sympathy for your STBX. He may turn mean because he wants to be near his children, too. The children are his kids, too and not just yours. The next step would be trying to accommodate somehow so that he can have some reasonable and meaningful contacts with the children since your children need it. Good luck.

Have you figured out the long distance parenting schedule, and how you are going to pay for it? The move away parent usually is assigned all transportation costs.

To dvd and astrolink: Your point is well noted. My STBX has been mean up to this point and I hope now that the decision is made, we both accept what is and can move forward in the best interest of the children. He is allowed the same visitation as he had here except he won't be able to have dinners on Wed. I am being very generous in the time he is allowed because it was never my intention to keep him from our children....although he tried to gain full custody with me only having supervised visits with the children 2 days per month. I understand he was trying to prevent me from relocation but his allegations will make it very difficult for me to EVER trust him. He is allowed 2 weekends per month. And I will always try to give him the kids minor school Holidays. He is paying for his own travel. He is very wealthy. We don't have a final parenting plan but it may include a 90/10 split but after hearing the Judge on Friday, maybe not. The Judge seems to have less tolerance for him at this point.

One more thing I offered during court was web-cam visits and the Commissioner liked the idea and granted 2 visits per week. I think that might be a good way for the kids to remain close to their father. The very unfortunate thing that will most likely occur as it did when we lived 1 miles from him - he will not show up, not give notice and cancel many visits. In some ways, he has enough rope to hang himself but he can make beautiful knots if he chooses. But, alas, that is for him to decide. He likes to make a lot of noise but not follow through on much.

Did he exercise his visitation with his children on a regular basis?

Very sad, whatever his relationship with you, the children are sure going to miss out. You say he still gets to keep his regular visitation..I assume it was an every other weekend kind of thing...Reality is...how is that going to work long distance? Are the kids going to travel to him? Or does he have to visit them in a hotel?

Sounds like a sucky deal in terms of parenting...but great for you

I agree and it does suck for my children. We are moving in the next two weeks, STBX has the kids now on a 2 week visit before we leave. My children are very young 5 and 7...they can not fly unaccompanied. He will have to travel to see his kids...although the Judge will allow him to pick the kids up and travel with him out of state 1x per month. He was the one that wanted 2x visits per month and I wouldn't dream of stopping him. I hope he can do it. The flight is over 6 hours with a connection so it is not in the best interest of the children to have them flying 24 hours and 2 time zones for a 60 hour weekend with their Dad. Although he is capable of making this decision with no regard to the kids. The Judge said if the kids suffer, the trips out of state will have to stop. My children love and need their father. I tried to work with him for 10 months in Collaborative before I filed to leave. He had many chances to keep his children near but thinks punishing me is separate from punishing his kids. I do not feel sorry for him. It is the classic problem of not seeing the forest through the trees. If we could have stayed here and there was ANY indication he would do what he said he would, I would not be leaving. I know the importance of having 2 parents nearby. I would love to have a break from being a full time parent - even if it is only 2 weekends per month. I am just not willing to live my life under his terms, that is a boundary issue for me and I want our children to know how to treat and be treated by others. In the end, you teach people how to treat you. I just stuck up for myself. We both got to choose.

What part of Minnesota are you moving to? Do you have a job lined up? Employment opportunities here right now are terrible. The only thing that is good financially is the welfare system is extremely generous here.

I am going back to school for the next few years. I am fortunate. The unemployment in Washington is actually worse than Minnesota with a much large cost of living.
Thanks.

An Unaccompanied Minor is a child who is at least five years old and younger than 12 years old and who will be traveling without someone who is 12 years old or older.

My kids were flying unaccomanied at that age.....I'm not sure what cities you are in...but there are nonstop flights btwn seattle and msp...if the parents are willing to drive to these airports to facilitate visitation

"I understand he was trying to prevent me from relocation"

I doubt that he cared you moved. His concern was with the children moving.

It IS almost impossible to move children out of my state. From what you wrote, you would have never been allowed to take the kids out of MN. To do so here, you have to show an employment opportunity that is outstanding, with extensive reports on the school the kids will be attending along with a great area to live. A parenting plan would have to be 100% set up beforehand, with the move away parent absorbing all costs. Beyond that the NCP would have either be a child molester, or not paid CS or seen the kids for at least a year. Let it be known that if he did move to MN, you will never be allowed to take the kids from here.

Beyond that, my concern lies is you are coming to MN without a job and going to school....which most probably means you will be on the public dole.....and in MN, that means around $40K in benefits/cash/vouchers a year. I hope you take full advantage of it. If I were him, I'd move to Minnesota a few blocks away. It's the only way to remain a parent.

I have been stewing on your post for quite some time. I am going to say what I think the others may be hinting at...

But first off, I do not know where everyone is getting their information, but my husband went through a relocation case just last year when his ex tried to relocate his kids out of town. This is what we learned after being educated by one of the best family law attorneys in our city: the state of Washington by default assumes that relocation for CP is permissable as long as the child is considered to have as good of a parent and environment in that home, as they would by staying with NCP. Even out-of-state relocations are default permitted unless the NCP can show cause. There are strict criteria in which an NCP must appeal a relocation, and the odds are 50/50 for both the CP and NCP in most cases.

With that being said, I am still surprised that you won a case for going to SCHOOL in another state. Did you get a major scholarship to an ivy league? Is this why you won? I can see why the attorneys told you it was an unlikely success, but not because of the state's default assumptions. Simply because it's an insane justification.

Personally, I am deeply saddened for your children.

You make a lot of statements that throw up red flags that you and your ex aren't even close to done yet healing from the divorce. Which means you are still viewing the situation through the perception of pain from this event. My husband's ex and him are still going through the healing process, and as a result, they still fight ugly.

I do not mean to point fingers at you, but I am very certain that if we asked your ex about the case, he would say you were just as nasty as he was in the fight. I understand divorce, and how skewed perceptions can get. I have been through a nasty divorce, but fortunately never had kids with the ex. Also, my husband's ex is frankly pathological in her lying (she will even lie about little stuff that means nothing), and tries constantly to poison the kids against their dad - even now. But in spite of her issues, my husband chooses to not fight her custody, or stop the kids from seeing or loving her.

Frankly, your wording and desciption of the case sound like a revenge. Maybe it's not, but from an outsider's perspective, your justification sounds pretty weak. You could have found a very good school to go to in Washington that would have allowed your kids to be at least in the same state as their dad, but you instead are moving your kids to the middle of the continent. How are you managing out-of-state tuition? Or is this a private school? I pray that you aren't getting the money from your ex through support. That would just be salt in the wound. Maybe you got into an ivy league school that will allow you to find a six figure job? That at least would explain why you are choosing a path so damaging to the parent-child bond between your ex and his kids.

In the end, it your kids that are going to lose.

I agree with Astro. I hope the father finds a way to move to the same area as you, or hope you will try to find a local alternative.

It would be great if he moved to MN to be closer to the kids. I am not on any "public dole". School is not the only reason the Commissioner and Judge let me leave...all 11 criteria were considered and STBX was unable to prove cause for any point. We both need time to heal but I don't regret my decision. You are right that he would say I was also "nasty" or "mean". I made this decision with the help of our children's and my therapists. It was not done lightly. As angry as I may be towards him at times, screwing up my children's relationship with their father would be selfish and petty. A CP being able to move to benefit from family, schools, costs etc. should be considered but done with sound judgment. Without giving every detail and boring all to tears... He went too far in painting a smear campaign that backfired on him when the court was presented with actual proof of the opposite. You are correct that the children lose...but I firmly believe children need predictability, consistency and unconditional love. Sometimes that environment is best provided by not remaining close to the other - but what one does when granted relocation about fostering a relationship with the NCP is solely placed on the CP. I think about the soldiers in Iraq that are gone and not see their kids for months on end...would you say the soldier made a poor choice to leave his family to serve our country? It's sometimes about the greater good and finding clever solutions to keep relationships close. Reading a book to your children over a webcam is still better than being in the same room with your children and ignoring them. These are just my thoughts and I remain a work in progress...

[quote]. My children are very young 5 and 7...they can not fly unaccompanied. He will have to travel to see his kids... [/quote]

FYI: at five years of age, a child CAN fly unaccompanied. (UM)There is typically a fee (Alaska Air charged fifty bucks each way. SW has been free in the past...)

When they are 12, they are no longer considered a UM, but you, as the parent, may accompany them to the gate and wait till they board (and vice versa)

I agree with newsmom 100%.