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My 13 y/o son stayed with his father (ncp)in atlanta (we live in missouri) a couple years ago, his cell phone was destroyed, which eliminated his phone list, there were times he wasn't allowed to call me, he wanted to come home early and wasn't allowed to. He slept on the floor while his step brothers stayed in beds, his father would not tell me when if he was coming home, AND his father did not bring him back as was agreed for me to have visitation. NCP is ordered to pay $200 child support, sometimes pays sometimes not. Here's my question. According to missouri fourm 14, NCP should be paying 3-4 times what he is currently ordered to pay. My son wants no contact, so I don't want to cause trouble by pursuing a support modification. NCP has chosen to not have contact, he has been provided contact info. My son heard an answering machine message on Christmas from NCP that was threatening, and he was very upset over it, at which time he wrote to his father and asked for contact to be in writing. Thus far NCP has not complied, with the exception of a valentine's and dec. b-day card that were sent the end of march. If I pursue a modification will NCP be able to pursue visitation even though child is 13 and does not want to have visitation? that was long and rambling, so thanks to you who take the time to read it. One last thing, NCP is a violent, alcoholic and his current wife left him in '07 and stayed in a domestic violence shelter with her children (my son's age.

"his cell phone was destroyed"
If you bought it, this is an issue for a civil court.

"there were times he wasn't allowed to call me"
Unless it's in the order, Dad doesn't have to let the kid call you.

"he wanted to come home early and wasn't allowed to"
In general, it's not a good idea to let the kids dictate the terms of their coming and going. They learn to use it to manipulate the parents. "Give me what I want, or I'll go back to Mom's (or Dad's) house!" Do you think the child should be allowed to go to his father's house on a whim?

"He slept on the floor while his step brothers stayed in beds"
Was there a bed for him? Did it cause him medical problems?

"his father would not tell me when if he was coming home"
Why would it be any other time than what is in the order?

"his father did not bring him back as was agreed for me to have visitation"
This is something you should have taken him to court over.

"My son wants no contact"
This is immaterial as far as a court is concerned.

"I don't want to cause trouble by pursuing a support modification"
Then why bother? Do you NEED the money? Most CS guidelines are confiscatory and are really alimony disguised as child support. They have little or nothing to do with the cost of raising a child.

Why not just let sleeping dogs lie? If Dad hasn't tried to exercise his possession in two years, just leave well enough alone. Dad will try to call from time to time (and you should encourage your son to answer and talk to his father up to the point his father becomes rude and abusive), and if that's it, then that's it.

Hmmmm. Letting a 13 y/o dictate the rules is never a good idea.

The whole tone of your post sounds as if there was a lot of conflict between you and the ex, during the divorce.

As far as dad is concerned, perhaps son was such a pain in the butt and antagonist, he's worn out his welcome at dad's house.

Ironically, that does happen and can be fueled by the other parent. My ex STILL, nine years later professes her love to me. She left me for another guy. I moved on, re-marrying three years later. She's still not happy. Finally got herself into counseling about it. However, it's a little late. From day-one, mom hen-pecked how "step-parents mean absolutely nothing" and promoted conflict between my kids and my wife. It went on for years and has been effective. They admitted that they were praised for causing conflict. Maybe they hoped that mom and I would get back together. That would never happen. But it did cause conflict within our home, and not only placed a wedge between the kids and my wife, but as a witness to the unnecessary attacks, antagonized by mommy, it created a wedge between me and the kids. No one wants conflict. I don't want conflict with my kids. I love my wife and have no intention on that changing. She's a great woman and a much better, more caring, more competent, more complete human being than their mother. My wife has cared for my kids as if they were her own, through doctors visits, school and sports activities, holidays, and just normal day-to-day activities. Children look at is as a loyalty thing to mom. If they weren't loyal, they learned that mommy wanted nothing to do with them. She canceled better than 75 percent of the time between 2000 and 2005. Yet, they love their mom, so they've given in to her way so they can be accepted by her. They accept her how she is, even though they may know it's not right.

It doesn't mean it happens just because he lived with you... My kids lived with me. Mommy was going guy-to-guy-to-guy, into another marriage, and then out again, always broke, got a large settlement in the divorce but still ended up in bankruptcy, moving more than 20 times, even living out of hotels a couple of times, and out of state (1200 miles away) three times, but kept up the pressure on them. She now, after counseling, admits she flushed a great deal down the drain. But it took over nine years to realize it. The damage may be in getting repaired with her, but the damage inflicted upon the relationship between me, my wife, and my kids, may never be undone. They accepted her even with her issues, and did what they had to in order to be accepted by her.

Don't ever think that your hatred for your ex is invisible. It's not. You should help to facilitate the relationship between the ex and your kid. The kid will be 30 one day and remember the words he heard at 13.

My kids watched me be the good guy, taking care of their every need, but still listened to mom out of loyalty and heard the message of hatred, loud and clear. It's only now, though, that they are beginning to see the meaning behind her words, actions, and motives, and it's about to explode in her face.

I totally agree with beaver. If you don't need the money, why stir the pot. I could have taken my ex-wife back for double the child support, but is it because you need the money, or because you need to maintain that connection with him, trying to get back - get even - get revenge. Let it go....

Takncarobizness, I really don't think you read my post. If you had you would have seen that NCP has a long history of alcoholism, violence and addiciton.

I live paycheck to paycheck, of course, I need the money. I am more than happy to leave sleeping dogs lie, however with a growing boy to feed and cloth...

And how dare you accuse my son of being such a pain he isn't welcome back. My son didn't spend a summer with his dad, he spent a summer with his stepmother and stepbrothers, his father did not spend any time with him. On that note, NCP's family contacts me for visitation because NCP has threatened to kidnap my son or he is verbally abusive with them.


Your anger is very obvious, you should consider therapy. It's very sad that after 9 years you are still holding on to so much anger. Good luck.

The answer to the original post is very simple: Every time a party files a motion to modify, the other party can file a counter-motion.

Whether the counter-motion will succeed is another story. On the facts outlined in the original post, it seems likely that a Missouri judge, at least in the counties in which I regularly practice, will hesitate to increase the NCP's contact. Additionally, CS is not tied to determining the best interest of the child as far as parenting time.

My anger? You're blasting the ex and you weren't even in the same state.

All of our children are perfect angels and never do anything to antagonize or upset anyone, right? I suggested that your son may have upset the apple cart. My kids did the same thing in my home, for a mother that was a NCP. I'm not upset. I'm not angry. I'm just proposing that things said by either parent tend to have an effect on the children's views. In my case, the ex had and still has severe issues because she's not in my house anymore. She's gone and struggling while we're doing very well. Her jealousy has caused her to say some pretty horrible things to the kids about me and my wife. When that happens over a prolonged period, the kid takes on the same view. Kind of like if you throw enough crap at a wall, eventually some of it sticks. I am a strict disciplinarian. I have a lot of structure. Mom doesn't care. Just don't interfere with her social life. I'm not angry. That is a fact. The kids love it there because there are no rules, no bedtime, no homework or grade expectations. They've even told me so. There is absolutely nothing I can do about it, nor do I care to do anything about it. It's not my business, since she's not mistreating them. She may be providing poor parenting, but that's not against the law. My kids are 17 and 18. Life is just around the corner and they still like the path of least resistence, best. My siblings and I were the exact same way when we were kids. They will learn it the hard way, just as I and my siblings did.

As far as the guys violent tendancies and addictions... We don't know what those are. They were not explained in the post. There are two sides to every story. I've never committed a crime in my life, but that doesn't mean my ex-wife didn't insinuate to people we knew and the courts that I had. I was accused of everything under the sun. I had a bad temper and was violent. However, other than spanking the children for disciplinary reasons, I never touched a soul. None of it stuck. None of it was true. I got custody of my kids. So, if you think I might have a slight bias, I probably do. I've seen personally, and as a parent what effect the other parent's words can have on a kid.

Another problem I have with your post is that you want the child to have a say. The child is biased. He has the ability to sit and listen to mom talk about dad and what a bad guy he is for the bulk of the year. You don't have to talk directly to him. Kids know. They eavesdrop. I certainly did it. And then my mom spoke directly to us about it, as well. So to your kid, dad may sound like a horrible guy. Therefore, when he arrives at dad's, he's already not looking forward to it. My son's been telling me he was moving to mom's as soon as he turned 18, since he was 13. Why? Mom lets him play Xbox360 til the wee hours of the morning on school nights. Bedtime is 10:00 at my house. I want him to get a part-time job. Mom doesn't care if he works. With my daughter, I wasn't about to let her live with a significant other, under my roof, especially when she needs to concentrate on college. She moved to mom's, mom left hubby number 3, and now mom, daughter, and significant love interest are all roomies. See.... It's path of least resistence. Was it in daughter's best interest to blow off school? No, she flunked out within 4 weeks and is now emancipated. Is it in son's best interest to play video games all night and blow off school? No, but that's what he gets to do. They will learn.... Yeah, the path was easy and fun, but once it's time to start playing grown-up, it's not going to be a picnic. I don't like it, but since I've been there, I totally understand.

My mom did that to me and my siblings. My dad had an addiction to alcohol up until the day he died. She STILL makes it sound as he was a total monster. We were there, and know that's not true. As we matured, we learned that the addiction didn't make him a bad person. It meant he had a problem. We even put him into detox. Eventually, we understood what mom was doing to us during our childhood. The spots on a cheetah don't change. Dad never seemed to change, and neither did mom. She was manipulating the hell out of us for her own gain and still tries whenever she has opportunity. Maybe that's not the case with your scenario. Maybe it is. I wouldn't expect you to admit it. But if it is, I'll warn you that none of us kids have a relationship with our mother now. Our dad passed a few years ago, and we made amends the best we could, but still feel tremendous guilt over how we treated him. We hold that burden against our mother. We will live with our regret and guilt for the rest of our lives.

My point is that I hate living with the guilt of how I treated my father. He had his problems with anger and addiction, too. But the manipulation from my mom won over when we were kids, and now we are left to live with it, even after he's gone. I hate that my kids are having to go through it. I hate that any kid has to go through it. And IF, and I do mean *IF*, that may be a contributing factor in your son's case, you may want to rethink things. My dad was a very depressed person for years after his marriage to my mom went sour. I'm sure that played a role in his addiction becoming worse. The manipulation of the children and pain that it caused him certainly didn't help. I'm sure it made it worse, still.

"Takncarobiznes" raises some very good points -- not the least of which is, that people need to understand the viewpoint of all of the persons involved in a co-parenting situation when a marriage fails.