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I was informed on the 31st that my wife had decided to move out and had rented a house. There have been some issues for sometime but nothing I didn't think we could overcome with some help. Apparently I was wrong. We may try counseling during the separation but that remains to be seen.

Neither one of us has money for an extended proceeding and are trying to do the split as amicable as possible. That said, when do things need to be filed? Can we wait several months to complete a MSA and/or to file? I'm not sure what my next move should be. I don't want to hire a lawyer until/unless it's absolutely necessary. We have no kids and have agreed on who gets what, etc. No alimony, support, etc. either. So what do I do?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Write it up, make sure she agrees with it, and take the agreement to an attorney. The attorney will help you create documents and file things. It will probably run you a few hundred bucks.

So I should do this ASAP or does it matter to wait a period of time? Last night was the first night she spent in the other residence. So, assuming she doesn't come back home for a night or 2, that should be the start of the separation clock. She still has things to move so should this SA be filled out and filed immediately or like I said, can it wait a while?

Thanks.

That's something that you'll want to ask an attorney about. I'm in TX, so the intricacies of VA law are unknown to me. Call some attorneys. Tell them what you want to do, using their services, and ask them the best way to proceed.

Thanks, I will try that route too.

I am not sure about VA either, but a friend of mine recently had a divorce finalized (NC) and this is what her and her ex did. Before they separated they came up with a separation agreement went in half and half for the attorney to draw it up and had it filed with the courts. Since neither of them had any changes to make after their 1 year separation was up, they showed up to court for the divorce hearing, neither of them with an attorney and all the judge needed to hear was that they were still in agreement and still wanted a divorce. The total cost was $350.

If you can trust your ex enough to do something like this, it would be cheap and easy.

There is no legal separation in VA per se. Yes, you must be separated and live apart but you don't go to court with an agreement. The two of you can have an agreement drawn up and start living by what is laid out in that agreement since its a contract. However, until its merged into the Divorce Decree you will have to sue to get enforcement if the other party does not follow through.

This was sort of what I did. The ex and I came to an agreement and the attorneys fashioned it into a Marital Settlement Agreement (part of which was that we agreed to file on no fault grounds). We both signed it and had it notarized. We then were under contract to each other to carry out the terms. Then, my attorney drafted the Divorce Decree (which incorporated the MOU) which the ex's attorney reviewed. We then submitted the Memo of Understanding for the Marital Settlement along with the Decree for the Judge's review and signature. We reached and signed the agreement about a month before the Judge signed off on the Divorce Decree. Please note though that a Complaint for Divorce on fault grounds and an Answer/Cross Complaint had already been filed with the Circuit Court and we settled literally 2 days before the trial was to be held. Though, I would imagine that some of this would be the same for a no fault divorce filing. You just can't file I don't think until you have met the requirements for a no fault divorce.

Either way I'd recommend not having one attorney review the agreement for the both of you.

Thanks everyone. I spoke to an attorney today (yeah free consults) and he advised to have a property agreement in place to protect the things we agreed to do. Makes sense. So I will talk to the STBX and figure out how to proceed. He wants close t $400 to draw up that agreement. Seems high to me and I wonder if I can get the form online and fill it out ourselves, have it notarized and file it with the courts.

Like I said, we have agreed on everything and want to keep costs low as possible.

"Seems high to me"
It seems like 1-2 hours to me. How long do you expect it to take him to draft a document?

"He wants close t $400 to draw up that agreement. Seems high to me and I wonder if I can get the form online and fill it out ourselves, have it notarized and file it with the courts."

Take it. It's not high. They charged many more hours for that in a divorce case. This is not the time to count penny. To make you feel better, many spent average 20K to 50K for a divorce.

400 is a good price. Most attorneys bill a minimum number of hours for certain things. For example my attorney (in NoVA) billed these hours at minimum for certain tasks:

Final Decree = 1.5
Interrogatories and Request for Production (standard) = 2.0
Marital Settlement Agreement = 2.0
Pre-Nuptial = 2.0
Court Appearance (only to enter a Decree, etc not a hearing) = .5
Complaint = 1.2

And remember those are the jumping off point. If the work took less than 2 hours for a MSA I was still billed 2 hours, however, if the work took longer I obviously was billed for the full amount of time. When I retained him in 2006 he billed out at 350/hr. He now bills out at around 450 I believe. Quite reasonable compared to the senior principal in the firm who at the time billed 525/hr (and I am sure bills over 600 now). The firm in the state where I live (yeah I had multiple attorneys in two states) had a similar billing structure, though her hourly rate was a mere 200/hr.

Trust me, you do not want to do this yourself. Since the two of you are entering into an agreement long before you can get a Final Decree of Divorce your agreement will be enforceable under Contract law. If your soon-to-be ex fails to follow it you'll have to litigate under a sort of breach of contract to get any relief. Once the4 Decree is entered and ratified by the court then you can File under a Motion to Enforce.

From what I understand you are looking just to have property settlement agreement out of the way, however, you might want to ask the attorney what his fees for uncontested divorce will be and if the PSA is normally part of that package cost. Perhaps you might find yourself using the same attorney for the divorce and they may later deduct the PSA costs from the total. You'll also want to inquire if their package costs includes all the filing fees. Some attorneys may list say $600 for uncontested divorce but that's just their fee. The filing and service fees may be additional and bring the cost closer to $1000.

Another option if you can find the forms online is to contact your county family court and ask them if they have an informational brochure (you can probably find those online specific for your county). Once you know what forms you need you should be able to obtain them from the clerk or a law library. You will still need to pay filing and process serving fees.

Thanks again., This is a fairly overwhelming process. I will contact the courts today and see if they can help, too. I'll keep posting updates as to what I find. Right now, we can agree on things and that's why I want to have a PSA/SA in place so down the road, she can't come back and demand things we have not agreed upon.

I think we can accomplish a no-fault divorce as we have no kids, agree on the split of property and will have been separated for 6 months in July. I will contact the attorney again and ask about package deals.

Thanks again.

[quote=bummedinva]Thanks again., This is a fairly overwhelming process. I will contact the courts today and see if they can help, too. I'll keep posting updates as to what I find. Right now, we can agree on things and that's why I want to have a PSA/SA in place so down the road, she can't come back and demand things we have not agreed upon.

I think we can accomplish a no-fault divorce as we have no kids, agree on the split of property and will have been separated for 6 months in July. I will contact the attorney again and ask about package deals.

Thanks again. [/quote]

Definitely post updates as I'm interested to hear how it shakes out. It sounds like if the two of you can be amicable what you posted above will be the best all around solution. Just make sure the agreement is as comprehensive as possible.

Well things hit a bump in the road last night. First, let me start by saying, you guys were right and $400 is pennies compared to some others I talked to. Looks like anywhere from $400-$1500 will cover the no-fault divorce. But that's where the rub is. Short background...She says she was sexually assaulted in 2001 on a business trip to SF. Without getting into minute details, I think it was an escapade that went too far for her. Anyway I have always given her the benefit of the doubt and tried my best to console and help. Put a big hurt into our intimate life that has never recovered. It's been almost 2 full years with no sex. I tried to giver her space and talked to her hoping she would get counseling. never went to counseling and never reported the original incident to police. RED FLAG!

We have continued to grow apart and have our own set of interests, etc. We started dating at age 19 and now at 38 we may have just become 2 totally different people. That I can live with. We have lived in sep bedrooms for almost 3 years as well. However, now back to last night, while cleaning out a kitchen drawer I find an old receipt from March 08 which contained 2 pregnancy tests. We were not having sex at the time. Confronted with this info this morning, she simply denied and said must be a mistake. She really must think I'm an idiot. And, well, maybe I am if that was going on and I was clueless. Anyway, more discussion now definitely needed. So the no-fault divorce I was hoping for may be just a dream.

I now have a feeling that this could get lengthy and expensive. She says she won't come after me for alimony, we make basically the same and with this market, not much, if any, equity in the home due to 2 mortgages. So, if she won't demand any assistance, then why push for an adultery ground other than to expedite the actual divorce? In VA, a divorce can be immediate on those grounds I believe, could be wrong. However, I would also try and get her to take on more of the debt than we have orally agreed upon. Why should I suffer both emotionally and financially because she had to sew some wild oats, so-to-speak?

So, sorry for the lengthy post, but I will again post more after I talk to a couple more attorneys this week, and we have had time to really get to the bottom of this mysterious receipt. Thanks again for all the advice and support. I still can't believe this is happening as I always thought some sort of counseling could pull us through. However, if this in fact true, then I don't think I could ever commit 100% to a relationship with her because I just don't trust her anymore and am frankly a bit grossed out. Again, thank you and I will post again shortly.

I think you'll have a hard time making the case for adultery based on a single receipt. Forget about the receipt (but keep it, just in case) and just get the divorce.

Oh, and whatever you "get" in the divorce, if you have a contested divorce, will probably be offset by your legal fees. If you fight about it, the two of you could buzz through $20k-$50k, easy.

I know and that's what I would like to avoid. The receipt alone will not be enough, but I have some resources that may help further. For little to no cost, I can get a PI to look into it for me. (personal friend) But really don't want to have to resort to that type of thing. I'll know more after we have had a good long conversation about it. However, I agree that just getting the divorce and being done with it is probably my best bet. Thanks again until next time.

What I was just thinking also, was adultery may be immediate "grounds" for a divorce, the divorce itself may not be as immediate. If she will take offense at you for divorcing her under those grounds, then she may retaliate on her word and demand much more.

I believe you're more in a "need to know" position for your own closure. I would do what I can to ensure the speedier, least expensive, amicable divorce, and later when the paperwork is filed, you could question then. Who knows... some couples have well meaning friends with beans to spill once the divorces are finalized. Not a great way to find out, but it happens.

"What falls on us as parents is making sure IF they have a gun that they understand gun safety, and making sure that it is locked up."

Forget it, the court won't bother with it and it may end up cost you even more if she gets angry and drag the case longer.
What do you expect? You slept separately for 3 years without any actions. She indicated that she won't ask for any support. Count your blessing and move on.

Seems so cut and dry when put like that. You are right, though easier said than done. Thanks for the bluntness, maybe I needed to see/hear it from someone else. Thanks again, till next time.

[quote=BeaverFever]I think you'll have a hard time making the case for adultery based on a single receipt. Forget about the receipt (but keep it, just in case) and just get the divorce. [/quote]

Beaver is right about this. The Commonwealth at this point could care less about adultery and unless you walked in on her committing the act and had graphic pictures to prove it you would have a hard time being granted a divorce on that fault ground. It *may* affect the equitable distribution portion but chances are it would not affect it much.

And yeah, you can use a fault ground to get a divorce more quickly but unless the parties agree it won't happen. My divorce took well over a year to work through and the complaint was filed (on fault grounds) right around the time the 1 year waiting period had basically been met. I took over a year for the decree to be submitted to the Court and we signed the MSA a day before the trial was scheduled to begin.

I can tell you are concerned about the expense. I'd really try to be as amicable as possible. Aside from the fact that fighting will drag it out, it also makes it A LOT more expensive. I've had conversations with my attorney that ended up costing me more than what you were quoted for the cost of the no-fault divorce. Now, if you feel as if there is something you need to dig your heels in on, I'm not saying you shouldn't look at that either. I would recommend you making a list of everything that you would like to see happen with this divorce. Put it in order of importance to you. Then, you have your list of what you can bargain with.